Grand Prix Final China - Mens and Pairs

Patrick Chan won with a short program that had an underrotated quad toe loop but a free skate that had a well done quad toe loop.

The short program had a quad toe triple toe combo by Nobunari Oda that may have been one of the best ever done! Over two extra points on GOE which is great for that level of jump.

Sui/Han of China tried to do throw quad salchow in their free skate but she fell after rotating it. They would win Bronze.

Mens Short Program

1- Nobunari Oda - 4T+3T Base value 14.40 - Oda's score 16.69. Very very impressive!

2-Patrick Chan - 4T< BV 7.20 final score 6.06

Free Skate

1. Patrick Chan - 4T BV 10.30. Final score 11.59

2. Takahiko Kozuka 4T< underrotated so BV 7.20- his sccore 5.63

3. Nobunari Oda 4T< with fall so BV 7.20 - score with fall - all -3 in GOE and 1 deduction off final score 4.20 (so really 3.20)

6. Daisuke Takahashi tried a quad flip. Problems with the quad toe. Flip attempt was underrotated so BV was 5.30 his score was 3.50.

1. Chan
2. Oda
3. Kozuka

Pairs

In Free skate Sui Han throw quad salchow 4Sth BV 8.00 their score with fall 5.71 plus the -1 deduction so really 4.71. They would win bronze.

1.Savchenko Szolkowy
2 Pang /Tong
3.Sui Han

Mens Protocol sheets
SP
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1011/gpf1011_Men_SP_Scores.pdf

FS
http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1011/gpf1011_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Pairs Free Skate Protocol

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpf1011/gpf1011_Pairs_FS_Scores.pdf

Trophee Eric Bompard - Men's Winner did a quad

A quad from a GP winner returned at Trophee Eric Bompard. Takahiko Kozuka did a quad but there was a two foot landing so he got negative GOE on it-getting less than the base value.

Short Program Quads

3rd place Brandon Mroz. Quad toe loop triple toe loop combo worth 14.40 Mroz because of negatie GOE got 13.40.

4th Place making his senior GP debut was Chafik Besseghier did a perfect text book quad triple and his was worth 15.11!

5th place was Brian Joubert who underrotated his quad attempt and then added a single toe loop. He got all -3 from judges in GOE and the point value ended up being 4.60. He would withdraw from the free skate and this was the second time he underotated a quad.

7th place - Kevin Reynolds opened with a flawed quad salchow triple toe loop combo that got him 10.36 points which was under the base value of 11.50. He attempted a quad toe loop but underrotated it and fell so that was worth 4.20 points with the fall really 3.20.

Free Skate

1st place Takahiko Kozuka got 9.01 points for his slightly two footed quad toe loop attempt.

3rd place Brandon Mroz 10.16 for his quad toe loop. Better than Kozuka's as they are worth 10.30.

4th place Kevin reynolds. Quad Salchow BV 10.50 Reynolds got 11.o7 with plus GOE. His quad toe loop was again underrotated and he fell so 4.20 again.

7th place Chafik Besseghier tried a quad triple I think but singled the quad so that single toe loop was worth. .24 points. Ouch!


8th place Peter Liebers opened with a triple toe loop which I thought was supposed to be a quad but maybe it's not. This would be the 3rd or 4th time he tripled a quad attempt and I don't think that's likely. I think his plan is to open with a easy triple toe and get good GOE on it. It was worth 5.10 points.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpfra2010/gpfra10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Medal winners
1. Kozuka
2. Amodio
3. Mroz

Cup Of Russia

Lots of great quads in the short program but by the free skate there was not one good one! Not from one person!


Short Programs

In the Mens skate Patrick Chan did a great quad toe loop - triple toe loop which got big GOE points. 14.40 plus 1.86 for a total of 16.26. Great accomplishment for him! It is like he was doing quad triples his whole career. Then he fell on a triple axel. Hope he puts them together soon.

Artur Gachinski did a quad toe loop + double toe loop. 11.70 + .43 = 12.13

Konstantin Menshov also did a quad-double and he scored 12.41 so better than Gachinski but he then doubled a triple loop.

Free Skate

Free Skate was a disaster for people who tried quads! They all failed

Chan underrotated and fell getting him 4.20 points but with the fall was really like 3.20

Abbott underrotated and fell getting the same score as Chan.

Preubert underrotated and fell!

Hanyu tripled it

Gachinski doubled it.

Machida underrotated but did not fall so got 5.06

Javier Fernandez did it but then fell. Some judges didn't give him -3 in GOE just -2 because he did land it for a second so 7.73 points

Konstantin Menshov had two planned but tripled one and doubled another.

It was just terrible. And that doesn't even factor in winner Tomas Verner who did them most of his career but doesn't do them anymore. But unlike Skate America a medal winner did do one at least so congrats to Patrick Chan who is now the standard bearer for quads! Didn't that would ever be written by anyone! LOL!

Skate America- Congrats Sui/Han!

The pairs team from China did a flawed quad throw salchow but showed they had the stamina and ability to do one consistently from competition to competition. Wish the men had that. Of course the quad trend would end at Skate America-home of the quadless Olympic Champ.

No quads in the short from any man.

2 quads in the long by Kevin Van Der Perren and Adrian Schultheiss.

Not doing or completing planned quads were Oda and Takahashi or Stephen Carriere.

Pairs - with medal winners who did a quad

4STh-Quad throw salchow BV 8.00 - 1.57 GOE total 6.43

Men

http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpusa2010/gpusa10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Takahashi bailed did a triple which was overrotated

Oda-7.30 with fall

Van Der Perren Quad toe loop 10.30 + .14=10.44

Carriere Downgraded to triple point value so 2.00 was recieved

Schultheiss 9th place best quad worth 11.30 points

Worst comp of the season for men

Cup Of China

Third Grand Prix event and third mens winner who did a quad. Also in pairs Sui/Han did a quad throw salchow. Sui messed up on the landing a little but that quad throw was well done and no doubt about her doing four revolutions!

Takhito Kozuka did one in his free skate that with negative GOE was worth 9.30 points. Even with the negative GOE it might have been one of his best quads ever. Brandon Mroz was the surprise silver medalist mostly due to his quad and other jumps. Bronze went to now quadless Tomas Verner who is not going to be doing the jump to gain consistency. The root of his problems last season was apparently the quad was using too much of his energy and focus? Only thing I can think of.

Short program

2-Brian Joubert 4t+3t
4-Brandon Mroz 4t+3t
5-Sergei Voronov 4t+1t
8-Jinlin Guan 4t

Long Program
1-Takahito Kazuka
2-Brandon Mroz
5-Brian Joubert 4t< - He slightly underrotated his one official quad. Think he also attempted a quad salchow but tripled it.
6-Tatsuki Machida -4T fell -7.30
7-Jinlin Guan-4T fell -7.30

Voronov had to withdraw because he hurt himself on his opening quad and so did not finish his free skate. Best showing still goes to Artur Gachinski.

Sui/Han quad throw salchow was worth 6.71 though the bv is 8 points. They came in second nearly beating Pang/Tong who were off. Well Pang was off with her jumps.

Skate Canada - Quads-Reynolds does 4 Chan does 1

Whoa Kevin Reynolds. Good for him with his short program with a quad salchow and quad toe. Then his free skate with another quad sal and quad toe.

Patrick Chan who liked to fight with Joubert and Plushenko about quads being unnecessary joined the "quad club" when he did one in his free skate at Skate Canada. Oda the silver medalist also did a quad after not doing one all last season in a possible attempt to skate cleanly to make him look better for the Olympics.

I want to get right to the numbers themselves!

Short Program
Kevin Reynolds
4S+3T BV 14.60 GOE was plus .71 total was 15.31

4T BV 10.30 GOE + .71 again! total 11.01- was worth more than that!!

Patrick Chan

Ratified attempt 4T with fall -3.00 GOE total value 7.30. I don't have any problems with four revolutions in the air being worth 7.30 points. That is a skill that many can't even do. Like the 2010 Olympic champion.

Artur Gachinski coached by Alexei Mishin did a quad but landed poorly so couldn't do a combo. So his 10.30 got reduced by 3.00 in GOE so down to 7.30. Unfortunate mistake.

FREE SKATE

Patrick Chan 4t worth 12.30 to judges. Just base value to me.

Nobunari Oda got base value. no GOE. one judge went -1 another went +1 10.30

Javier Fernandez did the best one no doubt! He deserved the GOE he got. 12.01 - should have gotten Chan's GOE

Kevin Reynolds- 4s + 3t then 4T

Artur Gachinski 4t worth 9.30 because of negative GOE

Rippon won bronze without trying any quads-quads not part of his strategy which is backloading triples "quadless backloading" I call it.

No doubt the rule changes after 2010 caused this quad comeback. Buttle and Lysacek with their world championships and Lysacek's gold medal without a quad was severe jump regression that would no doubt damage the sport of figure skating as ultraconservatism is not good for sports!

Takahashi wins NHK trophy

In winning the NHK trophy Takahashi performed his first quad in a ISU competition since 2008! His quad toe loop was worth 10.30 and with positive GOE was worth 11.30. This was a major accomplishmen from Takahashi who fell or underroated all his quads last season. It does show if you want to do a quad you need to do quads.

AFP headline was Takahashi's quad jump wins figure skating opener

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gwmEneotkhY1JNXWNHCSZ0Zt5meg?docId=CNG.885922972c519655a4e5c49f59f7a47e.411

He won for many reasons not just the quad but that was really important.

All the Japanese skaters at the NHK trophy performned quads in their long programs at NHK. It is just the culture of Japanese skating that makes the quad an important element. Worldwide there is not such a culture. Obviously Lysacek won worlds and the Olympics without a quad which many felt was unnacceptable but perfectly fine in the U.S. which doesn't care so much for jump progression and never has.

Here are all the quads performed in the NHK trophy from the short and long programs.

Short Program -just one

Takahito Mura - Japan

4T+3T 14.40 BV with +GOE total was 15.54. He then singled his axel and had a step out from a lutz

Long Program

Daisuke Takahashi 4t. 10.30 to 11.30

Yuzuru Hanyu 10.30 total with GOE 11.59

Kevin Van Der Perrin 10.30 no goe total 10.30 because of the slow entry

Takahito Mura 10.30 with GOE 10.30

Protocols
Short http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2010/gpjpn10_Men_SP_Scores.pdf
Long http://www.isuresults.com/results/gpjpn2010/gpjpn10_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

Artur Gachinski wins again in Coupe Internationale de Nice

After winning Finlandia with a program that had a quad in the free skate Gachinski went to Nice and did a quad in his short program and a quad in the long program. His coach is Alexei Mishin and it is beginning to look like Gachinski will have a very good first year in Seniors.

In the short program it was a quad toe triple toe with a base value of 14.40 -because of a three turn in between the quad and triple he got negative goe totaling 1.50 points. The total was 12.90. He placed first with 77.91 points.

Konstantin Menshov did a quad toe double toe combo 11.70 BV plus .75 GOE for a total 12.45. He placed second with 73.23 points in the short.

Free Skate

Gachinski 4T - BV 10.30 +1.25 GOE total 11.55.

Menshov did a quad toe double toe combo and a solo quad.

4t+2t BV 11.70 Final Value 13.70 GOE 2.00

4t 10.30 -1.00 final value 9.30

He finished in second place with his second silver of the season. In previous seasons Menshov would do badly in short programs and have to recover in the long but this season he is having his best short programs ever and after Nebelhorn and now Nice with solid short programs he has won two medals. Whatever changed in his training has basically worked!

Alban Preaubert opened with a 3t-assume quad attempt.

Javier Fernandez fell after doing a fully rotated quad-worth 7.30

Liebers tried -did a 3T as opening jump

Chafik Besseghier 4t+2t bv 11.70 final value with GOE 12.70. His jumps are very impressive.

http://www.nice-baie-des-anges.fr/images/stories/docs-coupe/resultats2010/html/index.htm

Keegan Messing Junior Grand Prix Czech republic

Messing attempted a quad toe loop at his final junior grand prix event of the season. He fell and it was underrotated but that was an improvement from his downgraded fall at his first JGP event. I think that at the JGP Final which he qualified for he may land it. He will have November and December to train and I think because he is getting closer he may land it there.

First attempt at the Junior Grand Prix of Romanian in Brasov:

4T<< BV 4.10 GOE -2.08 Score 2.00 (factor in -1.00 deduction for falling and it was 1.00)

Second attempt at the JGP Ostrava Czech Rep

4T< BV 7.20 GOE -3.00 Score 4.20 (factor in -1.00 ded for falling and it was 3.20

He finished off the podium in Ostrava but won Romania

This is the path to learning any jump. Doing it in competitions over and over.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpcze2010/

Finlandia Trophhy

Artur Gachinski of Russia - Gold Medal winner succeeded in doing a quad toe loop. Gachinski is a student of Alexei Mishin.

http://www.figureskatingresults.fi/results/1011/FT2010/FT2010_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

4T Base value 10.30 GOE .80 total value 11.10. Out of seven judges 5 gave him +1 GOE.

Nebelhorn Silver medalist Konstantin Menshov of Russia was also at Finlandia and he planned to a quad in the short but did a triple. In the LP he did a quad triple. 14.40 base value with GOE a negative 2 - final value 12.40. He finished in 7th place because of a weak short and the landings of other jumps in the LP were weak.

Japan Open ratified quads and official quad attempts

It was only the Japan open so I am not sure what to make of it but it was scored like an ISU compeition so I might as well include it here. I am sure people will refer to it during the upcoming season.

Quadruple toe loop Base value 10.30. Add to that his positive GOE of 2.14 (so generous!!! - it is the Japan Open after all) and you get 12.44.

After that he was said he was so excited he would pop his planned triple axel to a single axel and "lost" the "men's competition" to Adam Rippon. Rippon was totally flawless with his 8 triple program.

Michal Brezine. Quad Salchow 10.50. Negative GOE 1.57. Final value 8.93

Takahiko Kozuka - quad toe loop, base value 10.30 with fall so negative GOE a 3 and final value 7.30.

http://www.skatingjapan.jp/InterNational/2010-2011/jo/data0105.pdf

Nebelhorn Mens competition quad report

Gold medalitst Tatsuki Machida of Japan performed a quad toe loop in his free skate. The base value was 10.30 and with positive GOE it was worth 10.87.

Silver medalist Konstantin Menshov of Russia performed a quad toe+single toe in his short program which had a base value of 10.70 but with negative GOE of 3 points was worth 7.70 points. I assume all that negative GOE comes from doing a single jump. In the free skate he did a quad toe loop +double toe loop that had a 11.70 base value but with positive GOE of 1.43 was worth 13.13 points.

Bronze medalist Peter Liebers of Germany and fourth place finisher Armin Mahbanoozadeh of the US tried to do quad toes in their free skates but tripled them.

Michal Brezina of the Czech Republic who was the frontrunner to win had trouble with the debut his quad salchow which was doubled in both the short and long programs. Everyone says in practice it is great but maybe nerves got to him.

Sui/Han Chinese pair at Cup of Austria (Jr GP event)

At the Cup of Austria -a part of the Junior Grand Prix season World Junior Champs Wenjing Sui and Comg Han of China coached by Luon Bo (former partner of coach Yao Bin) won silver after their free skate included a throw quad salchow and an attempted quadruple twist. They got negative GOE on the throw quad salchow (because she two footed the landing) but the twist attempt was downgraded.

The throw quad was great aside froom the landing. She obviously got in four rotation and the look of the jump was exactly how it should look in my view.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucvWQvuqLRA

You see Kavaguit and Smirnov of Russia try it all the time but it rarely looks as good as when Sui/Han did it today!

Sui did seem too low to get a full quad twist in.

The Gold Medal winners Stilbova and Klimov have great unison and it is not surprising at all that they won but I think if Sui and Han hadn't both fallen (I guessed Sui looked like she slipped more than fell on a jump) they would have won.

Keegan Messing tries quad toe loop at JR GP event

At the Junior Grand prix in Romania Alaska native Keegan Messing tried a quadruple toe loop in his free skate September 1oth. He fell and it was downgraded. Instead of getting a < for underrotation he got a << which means it was totally downgraded. I did not think I would see a quad attempt at a GP event because usually a triple axel is the ceiling of jump difficulty. So that Messing tried is admirable. Good for him! He won the first Gold for US skaters on the junior grand prix circuit.

The base value was 10.2 but he got only 2 points for the attempt and because of the fall deduction it was really only 1 point for this quad attempt. That hardly seems like enough to do such a big move.

http://www.adn.com/2010/09/11/1450115/messing-claims-first-at-romanian.html

Patrick Chan does quad at liberty

For the first time ever in a competition (even if it wasn't an official ISU competition and basically doesn't count) Patrick Chan did a quad. He did a quad toe loop with positive GOE in his short program at the Liberty competition in Pennsylvania July 16, 2010. This is a big move for him. He wants a quad to add to his almost always level 4 spins and steps and great choreography, interpreatio-basically the PCS marks.

Chan got into fights with Joubert and non-directly with Plushenko I guess-when he said just doing the quad should not matter in winning- a skater needs EVERYTHING-well everything includes the quad and if he added that successfully to ISU competitions than everybody better look out-especially world champion Takahashi.

After he did the quad he fell on his triple axel. This is common when people do quads-they tend to fall on their next jump and that is why you don't see them much in short programs. But practice is the way to get this sorted out.

Last year he was injured and thus couldn't compete really until Skate Canada where he placed sixth. He had to skip Cup of Russia where he would have competed against Plushenko-who did two quads-one in his short and one in his long program. He would then go on to Canadian nationals and then the Olympics and then worlds-all without a quad and having trouble with his triple axel, He won Canadian Nationals, stumbled at the Olympics and then won the World silver. All of this while doing shaky triples but of course getting HUGE HUGE PCS marks.

He should definitely not go the route of doing quads while just doing double axels. When I think of the quad I think of someone who can do all the triples and then progresses to the Quad. The 1998, 2002, 2006 Olympic champions all had quads and triple axels.

He should keep going for it ALL.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100717&content_id=12330910&vkey=ice_news

ISU adds second quad option to mens short program

This is odd as very few to almost no skaters do one quad in their short programs. I don't believe this was because skaters didn't like that they couldn't do two! LOL. The past three world championships and the Olympics has shown that no one who does a quad will win a competition based upon how judges are scoring programs right now. Now I do know that the ISU has removed a required step sequence from mens skating. That would give a man who wanted to do a quad or two more set up time. I thought the main reason why quads have nearly completely vanished from mens short programs was because of the time required for set up. There are so few skaters who do quads anymore and you can see that are routinely criticized for lacking choreo and tranistions in there programs as they need time for set up and also recovery really. You might have read what Plushenko was reported to have said in an interivew when he commented on not having transitions because he focuses on his jumps.

Now if you look at Kevin Reynolds who has the talent for a quad toe and quad salchow-would he do both in his short programs? Maybe he will do a test and see what will happen to his PCS score as a result of doing two quads. I thought Brian Joubert could do both a quad toe and quad Salchow but he really hasn't done a quad salchow in a while - and also what would happen to his PCS? Takahashi can't do a quad toe anymore so he tried a quad flip but failed (but failed better than his failures with his quad toe) but he probably wont try anything but a flip now.

Overall it seems to be an odd change as quads are largely disappearing from mens skating anyway.

ISU Meeting

The ISU meeting this week should have something on the quad jump. I mean for 10 years all the world and Olympic gold medalists did it and now of course winners no longer do it. Jumping has gone horribly backward and I hope something is done to get it back on track.

2009/2010 season

Staring with the Trophee Eric Bompard when Nobunari Oda won beating Tomas Verner it was a sign of things to come. For the 2009/2010 season Oda had a program that differed from his previous seasons in that he removed the quads. Why would someone do this for the Olympic season? Because he wanted to win and the world championships the previous March showed that with Lysacek and Chan winning Gold and Silver quads were on the way out. The system as a whole punished them severely. They just weren't worth doing with spins steps and PCS and the inherent risk of doing them in the first place. Tomas Verner started his implosion in the free skate. While Oda with his no quads was able to beat Verner and win the Gold there. In third place was Adam Rippon - an almost total COP skater who never even thinks about doing quads because doing lots of jumps after the halfway point are worth more than quads when you really add everything up.

Trophee Eric Bompard-Winner no quad/-silver medalist quad/-bronze no quad/

Rostelecom Cup- winner with quad/-silver medalist no quad/-bronze no quad

Cup of China-winner no quad/-silver medalist no quad-/bronze-with quad

NHK Trophy- winner with quad/silver with no quad/bronze no quad

Skate America-winner no quad/silver no quad/bronze with quad

Skate Canada- winner with quad/silver no quad/bronze no quad

Grand Prix Final- Winner - no quad/silver no quad/bronze no quad

Olympic Games-Winner no quad/silver quad/bronze no quad

World championships - winner No quad/silver no quad/bronze quad

19 medal performances without quads
8 medal performances with quads

COP is spelling out the death of quads

The following aren't worldwide so I don't tend to count them but I will mention them.
Euros-all medalists did quads
Four Continents-winner no quad

If you look at the breakout star of the season I believe it was obviously Michal Brezina. He is almost a purely COP skater. Everyone says he is the best jumper with a great quad. I have heard it from Paul Wylie, Scott Hamilson, Peter Carruthers and more. He did not even try one once. Why? Because he is smart and knows COP rewards jumps after the haflway point more than quads in many ways. Higher PCS being one way.

Going back to Jeff Buttle

When he won the world championship in 2008 I remember reading a lot of articles that mentioned his quadless win. Reporters seemed intent of pointing out that his skate did not have that element because from 1997 to 2007 all winners had the quad. Four revolutions in the air was big news. He could never really land quads consistently but was able to win because he really did do a lot of jumps after the halfway point. When Lysacek said he injured his foot and would not be doing quads anymore the Buttle skate was his roadmap for winning. He could do all the triples and not doing the quad meant more time to train for steps and spins. So he was able to win. Brian Joubert with all his quads had slower spins and due to the fact that quads take a lot out of a skater could be counted on to fall on something during a program. It just seems to happen all the time with skaters who did quads.

Under 6.0 system where judges just subtracted from 6.0 quads meant it was very likely you would get the least deductions unless you really were a terribly bad spinner or step skills.

So is Jeff Buttle the cause of the vanishing quad? He certainly showed how it was totally unecessary under the COP system and probably not even worth doing. In the 2006 Olympics and the world championships since 2005 people still were embracing the 6.0 mindet of quads quads quads. Now that is gone. It has totally vanished. Only Russian coaches and some skaters who started under 6.0 seem to think the quad matters.

Future of the quad into

This is the first post of this blog and I just wanted to express my opinion on what is happening with the quadruple jump in figure skating. It was a sign of technical progress in the sport like the triple axel or any of the triple jumps. It does not seem to have a future. Why doesn't it have a futre in my view? It is because winners are not doing them. First off they are very hard to do. That is common sense but people were learning them and training for them because they thought they were necessary to win. But now with the Olympic champion and last three world champions all being quadless why bother with that jump now? COP has largely killed the jump. I think COP has killed the jump because under COP you get bonuses for jumps done after the haflway point and the fact that spins and steps have point values. You want to get the highest possible spin and step levels and what better way to do that than stop doing quads in your programs. They do take up a lot of energy and lots of people who do them have slower spins and less complex step sequences.

Look at what happened at the Olympics with Lysacek and Plushenko. Because of all of Lysaceks jumps after the halfway point he was nearly able to tie Plushenko on jumps. Plushenkos quad triple meant nothing when put up against all of Lysaceks jumps after the halfway point. They all increased in value a half point basically. Even if Plushenko's first triple axel had not been tilted in the air which caused negative GOE he still would have only beaten Lysacek by one point. COP has lead to people wiith the ability to do quad triples just barely edging out people who don't do any quads at all! Which makes it totally pointless to do if it also means slower steps and spins and to have lots of people accuse you of being an artless jumper which means lower PCS. Under COP doing a quad is the stupidest thing a skater can do if they have all the triple jumps. I feel I have to say that because of Lambiel who didn't do triple axels so really had to do quads to stay ccompetitive.

As skating goes toward the 2010/2011 season I can only see less people doing quads because of recent proposed changes in the scoring system. Just because the value of the quad looks like it is going to be increased doesn't mean it is actually worth doing. Bonuses after the halfway point plus bonuses for combos mean that any jump combo after the haflway point will be worth 2.2% more than if it was done before the halfway point.